tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post4226013053382257273..comments2024-03-27T08:57:40.383+00:00Comments on SOLO IP <br> for sole and small IP practices<br>: The Agreed Fee and Your Client AccountFilemothttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15735898485265104580noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-67773258974481860772016-11-05T19:28:13.568+00:002016-11-05T19:28:13.568+00:00A follow-up question to that asked by Anon 08/03/2...A follow-up question to that asked by Anon 08/03/2016: If you charge an agreed fee of £500 which includes an (as yet unpaid) application fee of £170, do you record this as fee = £500 or do you record it as fee = £330, recharged expense = £170?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-49591354244637973672016-03-08T10:53:42.662+00:002016-03-08T10:53:42.662+00:00You are thinking of 29.4
29.4 All dealings wi...You are thinking of <a href="http://www.sra.org.uk/solicitors/handbook/accountsrules/part6/rule29/content.page" rel="nofollow">29.4</a><br /><br /> 29.4 All dealings with office money relating to any client matter, or to any trust matter, must be appropriately recorded in an office cash account and on the office side of the appropriate client ledger account.<br /><br />In my simple computerised accounts system the fees from my IPO deposit accounts are recorded as cost of sales but separately I record the disbursements against each client so I can link them and there is also a spreadsheet that records the movements so the account can be properly reconciled. Thats probably an idiosyncracy of my own but the idea is that the client should know when and what payments were made if necessary. The detail of the SRA rules is sometime difficult to reconcile with real life but they do answer questions<br />Filemothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15735898485265104580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-89768985436399041222016-03-08T05:00:12.543+00:002016-03-08T05:00:12.543+00:00Regarding the agreed fee approach: Do you mind if ...Regarding the agreed fee approach: Do you mind if I ask how you record the filing fee in your accounts when you pay it? Do you record it as an expense of the practice, seeing as you have quoted an all-inclusive fee for preparing and filing? Or do you record it on the client ledger? (The SRA rules say that all movements of office money related to a client matter must be recorded in the client ledger.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-37221071382235945482015-01-09T16:26:08.804+00:002015-01-09T16:26:08.804+00:00that depends on your terms of trade but generally ...that depends on your terms of trade but generally speaking the client has no claim for a refund when he has paid a VAT invoice delivered in accordance with your terms of tradeFilemothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15735898485265104580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-61957896495999271422015-01-09T16:20:28.101+00:002015-01-09T16:20:28.101+00:00But when would the client have a claim over the fu...But when would the client have a claim over the funds? I wonder if anyone knows the answer to that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-68652489957539418672015-01-09T15:03:30.097+00:002015-01-09T15:03:30.097+00:00CIPA has now published a notice here that says mu...CIPA has now published a notice <a href="http://www.cipa.org.uk/pages/Client-accounts-application-of-the-Money-Laundering-Regulations" rel="nofollow">here </a> that says much the same thing with a big emphasis on getting the invoice out first and the client having no further claim over the funds.Filemothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15735898485265104580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-60124217771256792112014-12-22T18:27:22.731+00:002014-12-22T18:27:22.731+00:00That is one way of looking at it, certainly. It i...That is one way of looking at it, certainly. It is a shame that we do not have any guidance from IPReg on this point, though - especially as it is possible that they might disagree with your view.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-13461845744991758912014-12-22T18:14:40.066+00:002014-12-22T18:14:40.066+00:00I think you are being too literal. The SRA rule is...I think you are being too literal. The SRA rule is considering agreeed fees for say business or property sales which transactions might not complete. In the context of a trademark application non-completion of the transaction would be refusal of registration. It happens!Filemothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15735898485265104580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-73914487976904261222014-12-22T18:11:22.142+00:002014-12-22T18:11:22.142+00:00Is there not a problem with using an "agreed ...Is there not a problem with using an "agreed fee" when it comes to the filing of patent or trade mark applications? That is, when you are asking for money up-front in respect of the filing of such an application, how do you provide evidence that the fee is not one that is dependent on the transaction being completed?<br /><br />I am not sure how many clients would be happy to pay money up front if you are specifically required to advise them that you will retain the fee even if you do not file the application! Perhaps I'm getting the wrong idea of what is meant in Rule 17.5 by "the transaction", but I cannot see what else (other than filing the application) it would mean in this context.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-12632037743340532992014-12-18T11:49:19.674+00:002014-12-18T11:49:19.674+00:00Thank you, yes that is just about what we do too.
...Thank you, yes that is just about what we do too.<br />I don't think interest at current rates will be much!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-13937476327613461592014-12-18T11:04:30.807+00:002014-12-18T11:04:30.807+00:00There has been no change to rule 10 on fees which ...There has been no change to rule 10 on fees which simply says that they should be justifiable with basic guidance that fees charged should be based on the information provided in any letter of engagement. If you are adding a significant percentage I would have said you needed to justify that. If you are simply rounding your disbursements to the nearest pound, that hardly seems worth mentioning. Brevity in terms of engagement is an important thing too. It gets more interesting if you haven't paid the disbursements so are doing a tentative conversion to produce the amount on the bill. I don't explain that in my terms of engagement when I do it but if someone asks. which occasionally they have, they get chapter and verse on my numerical methods. At the moment I'm using the www.xe.com conversion rate plus 5% plus £10 - which gets me pretty close to what it actually costs via my payment provider. However, increasingly, I'm paying the disbursements and then billing the exact amount rounded up to the nearest pound. Maybe when hoarding your working capital delivers you interest, I may change that.Filemothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15735898485265104580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-37071372109634634232014-12-18T10:46:56.735+00:002014-12-18T10:46:56.735+00:00Interestingly you said......Your terms of business...Interestingly you said......Your terms of business will have explained your client how you bill disbursements, which might for example include adding a percentage to cover the administrative costs.<br /><br />I wonder if firms do include the actual percentage added on to disbursements in their Ts and Cs. Is there a rule one should do so, do you know?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-45114211619944747692014-12-18T10:21:38.110+00:002014-12-18T10:21:38.110+00:00Thanks Barbara, very helpful indeed.
We have a cl...Thanks Barbara, very helpful indeed.<br /><br />We have a client account but are very small, near solo, and it has always worked well and been easy to follow. And we have not needed a clever book keeper, but I guess we have always had enough funds in office money to pay out. <br /><br />The big advantage of using client account is risk, the funs are held in advance for disbursements is in your client account, so once you pay it out of office account, and issue balancing invoice, you can transfer fund straight away and your cash flow is back on track but client has reassurance, its separate money until then. I would suggest its larger firms that would need to monitor as cash coming in and going out could happen from several parts of the firm at once, that would require active coordination.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-18780241349616672132014-12-16T22:14:24.936+00:002014-12-16T22:14:24.936+00:00An entirely appropriate option for the non-litigat...An entirely appropriate option for the non-litigatorFilemothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15735898485265104580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7058786915356669476.post-10922930938351397902014-12-16T19:55:43.465+00:002014-12-16T19:55:43.465+00:00It looks from the rule that even if you never rece...It looks from the rule that even if you never receive client money you still need to set up a client account. Another solution is to become unregulated! Nick Whitehttp://www.tangibleip.comnoreply@blogger.com